Sep 12, 2005, 07:00 PM // 19:00 | #1 |
Aquarius
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Somewhere between Boardwalk and Park Place
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Glitch in Mhenlo's healing AI?
Hello, weird question, but has anyone else noticed recently that Mhenlo has a tendency to stop healing a character after passing a certain point of life? I've recently come up against twwo equally frustrating scenarios of this... both involved health degen.
First, I was going through Grenth's footprint, fighting a group of enemies, and they were focus firing me. Naturally, I thought, Mhenlo'd heal me at least a bit, since I was the only person taking damage, but he just sat there as I got pummeled. I managed to run to the backlines, but promptly died of poison/phantasm/bleeding combo. More recently, in Thunderhead Keep, the home of Jalis the suicide King, I was in a similar situation. Jalis in his usual drug-induced battle fury, went off to solo some rangers while the rest of the team concentrated on gnashers no less than a few spaces away. The end result was Jalis taking a huge amount of damage, but Mhenlo healing him once or twice then just standing there like a retard while the king died. This is really frustrating, and I don't think it's an energy problem, because I was watching him... it doesn't take over a minute to get 5mp for word of healing... Anyways, I was wondering if anyone else's noticed this.... thanks in advance. |
Sep 12, 2005, 07:02 PM // 19:02 | #2 |
Academy Page
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Well he could've been hit with an energy reduction skill from an enemy. Also, you're lucky he even healed King Jarlis once, I've never seen henchmen heal NPCs ever.
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Sep 12, 2005, 07:09 PM // 19:09 | #3 | |
Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: River Dancing
Guild: Eternal Treachery [TimE]
Profession: Me/E
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Sep 12, 2005, 07:21 PM // 19:21 | #4 |
Aquarius
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Somewhere between Boardwalk and Park Place
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It just happened again.. I watched Jalis go from half life to 0 life, as the rest of the party was at full life. This is getting absurd. Mhenlo SAT there, doing absolutely NOTHING as the king died. It took about 10 seconds for him to even get into the danger zone, he wasn't getting attacked at all (died from phantasm), yet nobody healed him. Frustrating, since Thunderhead is a really freaking long mission, and I was 2 enemies away from getting past the escort part.
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Sep 12, 2005, 07:23 PM // 19:23 | #5 |
Academy Page
Join Date: Jul 2005
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As a monk secondary I had no problems completing this mission with henchmen, it may sound silly but it might be worth it for all the frustration you are having. Why don't you change your secondary to monk and go grab Mending. With a +3 Mending on Jarlis I did this mission easily with henchmen, I didn't have to heal him once.
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Sep 12, 2005, 07:30 PM // 19:30 | #6 |
Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: May 2005
Guild: Philosophers of Denravi
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Yes, I believe I HAVE noticed this, although it's only now that you bring it up when it occurrs to me that's what's been going on.
But yeah, just yesterday my buddy and I were commenting to one another that with Menhlo in the party, we both have to resort to running around a lot more than when he's not with us.. Bet this is why, because it's a pretty drastic difference. I think it's more a problem with all the bots though, and not just Mhenlo. Sadly, MOST of the bots will stand around like retards from time to time. I find it's usually because some quirk of pathing has made them decide they haven't yet reached their destination, but they won't keep trying to find another path to get themselves unstuck and continue on with their orders. Example is you call a target, bot takes off to attack it, unrelated enemy unit charges up to bot and begins pounding on it blocking bot's path to the called target, bot stands in place getting killed. I'm wondering if something similar isn't happening with Mhenlo, and something about the skills he uses makes it happen to him more frequently than the others. Next time it happens, try to see if he might simply be 'stuck' enroute to the teammate that needs healing.. |
Sep 12, 2005, 07:31 PM // 19:31 | #7 |
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2005
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it's not a glitch..AI doesn't exist therefore this game can't be utilizing it.
and I've never seen mhenlo heal Jalis...<3 mhenlo, but he's a shitty healer. |
Sep 12, 2005, 07:33 PM // 19:33 | #8 |
Desert Nomad
Join Date: Jun 2005
Guild: Dvd Forums [DVDF]
Profession: E/
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Mhenlo was a decent healer back at Lion's Arch, when you escorted him with the others, but when he became an NPC, it was all downhill from there.
I think I recall something like that happening, wondering, "Why isn't Mhenlo healing me?", when it was the beginning of the battle, and there no Mesmers or purple hex arrows on him. |
Sep 12, 2005, 07:42 PM // 19:42 | #9 |
Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lloyd.ab.ca
Guild: Lords of All
Profession: R/Mo
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Interesting...
I recently gave up my attempts to find a group that could pull off Thunderhead. I knew it was a tough mission, but I figured why not give the Henchies a try. Afterall they got Elona Reach for me as well (after hours of failing with humans). My first attempt I got all the way to the Fort and killed of Ragnar. All that was left was the 2 groups of 4, which are too close to each other to draw apart (with henchies). I tried none the less, however the King went running into the group and ended up being killed... it was close though, and he was getting healed. Since I was a Ranger I know it wasn't my healing. Second attempt I made it all the way through, completed successfully I just about had goose bumps. I think I got lucky though. The waves of baddies coming through the gates were at most two at a time and my group could run back and forth nailing them. One named Mursaat guy got through with a few thugs and went up to where the King usually sits. But for some reason the King had already come down and was sitting the middle of the open space, the Mursaat couldn't find him! It was kinda funny. Then after a while I was starting to wonder where that Perfect Armor guy was, when something happened I'd never seen before. Big group of Mantle and that Confessor Dorian guy showed up. I was thinking "crap, I'm toast." But they were relatively low level and I walked all over them, which as it turned out was the end of the mission! So anyway, I have seen Mhenlo do a good job (trying) to keep the King alive (my first attempt). Throughout the second attempt he wasn't really in any danger, but what happened to Perfect Armor dude I still don't know; I guess he took a wrong turn... |
Sep 12, 2005, 07:44 PM // 19:44 | #10 | |
Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: May 2005
Guild: Philosophers of Denravi
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Oh WELL then! Let's all stop discussing this subject at once, since apparently the problem never existed in the first place. Thanks, Semantics! You've once again freed us from our pointless explorations Everyone else OK with using the term 'AI' when we actually mean to be talking about simple scripts? Good. |
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Sep 12, 2005, 08:52 PM // 20:52 | #11 |
Jungle Guide
Join Date: Jun 2005
Guild: The Blue Empire [BLUE]
Profession: W/Mo
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Mhenlo heals better than 65% of the human healers out there. He is not perfect. His healing scripts do MAKE SENSE, however: you can tell after playing with the henchies a lot how they prioritize human players in the group, other healers, themselves, and so forth. He ABSOLUTELY DOES HEAL JALIS AND OTHER NPCs. Anyone who says henchmen don't heal the King is just frustrated because they cannot win a pretty straight forward mission and want to blame it on something.
You can tell how the henchmen think by watching their resurrection priorities. Henchmen do get stuck, but so do human players from time to time when they target the wrong guy or the battlefield is so congested that they cannot hit the intended target. The ones that get stuck, though, are the warriors. The casters rarely get stuck, but they sometimes don't move into casting range. What you are probably noticing is the "blame mhenlo" syndrome where several things happen at once: henchmen over aggro archanists and player frantically struggles to kill things, praying that the king doesn't die. Mhenlo depletes his energy supply healing throughout the team as several members suffer health degeneration at the same time. Mhenlo gets hit with some energy drain from those same enemy archanists, who also have pretty good AI scripting. Player is extremely frustrated by not knowing what Mhenlo's energy level is because Mhenlo never says things like: "My energy is 2 of 43." Player's perception of time passage during the intense combat is distorted. Player becomes convinced Mhenlo is conspiring to cause him to lose the mission. Player tears out hair, smashes computer, calms down, and eventually seeks psychiatric help. That is normal progress of the syndrome. Get professional help if you need it. |
Sep 12, 2005, 08:53 PM // 20:53 | #12 | |
Aquarius
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Somewhere between Boardwalk and Park Place
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Deepest apologies for my terrible bungle. It must've been hard understanding my post with such a tragic flaw in it.
But onto other things more pertinent and conducive to the issue--I didn't think about this until I was in class not paying attention today, but I've seen that enemies, when reaching a critical health level, will stop healing themselves altogether. Perhaps something similar is worked into the reactionary, scripted henchmen programming which is in no way, of course, related to or remotely synonymous with AI but to a higher threshold of hp for henchmen. Example: Mhenlo's set to stop healing a member at 25% health because the player is most likely to die. Mhenlo lets the player die as he heals other players who are most likely to survive. This might be a reason for his odd behavior.... he's still pretty quirky tho... and he likes to use Restore Life on people in the middle of battle Quote:
Last edited by Lasareth; Sep 12, 2005 at 09:06 PM // 21:06.. |
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Sep 12, 2005, 08:59 PM // 20:59 | #13 |
Jungle Guide
Join Date: Jun 2005
Guild: The Blue Empire [BLUE]
Profession: W/Mo
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You can tell when the henchmen will use restore life, too. The script checks the health of the party members and the energy level of the healer monk. If there is no one who needs healing and the energy is there, the monk will try to resurrect, regardless of whether a battle is going on. That is usually okay, and just what I would want him to do, but there are other times when it isn't appropriate. How is a henchman to know, though? Most human beings can't even figure that one out, I've noticed. It would be good if he could disengage the resurrect and heal if players in the party start taking massive damage, but in my experience he will only disengage a restore life if HE is taking massive damage.
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Sep 12, 2005, 09:01 PM // 21:01 | #14 | |
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Quote:
wouldn't want you wasting time discussing technology that doesn't yet exist |
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Sep 12, 2005, 09:17 PM // 21:17 | #15 |
Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: May 2005
Guild: Standing United (UNIT)
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I have never seen henchmen party members heal NPC "allies." I do not think it is a bug, but I dont think Alesia or Mhenlo ever healed allies.
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Sep 12, 2005, 09:23 PM // 21:23 | #16 |
Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lloyd.ab.ca
Guild: Lords of All
Profession: R/Mo
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Oo Oo! I just had to get in on this.. AI is a technology that does exist. That's right ladies and gentlemen (if I can use that those terms), it truely does exist in our time and in our reality. Just not so much in games, that's not a practical application of it.
You'd only really know what I'm talking about if your an Uber Geek like myself, its not like its made leaps and bounds and garnered public attention yet. |
Sep 12, 2005, 09:28 PM // 21:28 | #17 | |
Jungle Guide
Join Date: Jun 2005
Guild: The Blue Empire [BLUE]
Profession: W/Mo
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Sep 12, 2005, 09:31 PM // 21:31 | #18 | |
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Quote:
what you are seeing/describing is considered Simulated Intelligence...for a machine to BE Artificially Intelligent it has to possess the ability to learn..which is, infact, impossible. Simulated Intelligence, however, has been around for more than a decade and video games have made use of it for years. |
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Sep 12, 2005, 09:40 PM // 21:40 | #19 | |
Jungle Guide
Join Date: Jun 2005
Guild: The Blue Empire [BLUE]
Profession: W/Mo
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Quote:
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Sep 12, 2005, 09:41 PM // 21:41 | #20 |
Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lloyd.ab.ca
Guild: Lords of All
Profession: R/Mo
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Yeah, I suppose it would be hard to pin a definite definition onto that term. I was thinking the type of AI that can show to a limited degree (limited by current abilities with said techonology) self awareness. An ability to adapt to changing environmental conditions and to learn while adapting and be able to anticipate probable changes.
As a very simple example, although quite complex to create in reality, a robot that can 'learn' to walk. Give it a destination clear in plain site and it will walk towards it. Restart the senario, then half way through the walk dump and object in the way. The robot has to realize it cannot travel through the object and to find a new way to reach the destination. With such an AI one could do this test several times over and if landing an obstruction in the same place at the same time eventually it would anticipate the obstruction and begin to change course in order to avoid it before the obstruction appears. It's out there in today's world, well in R&D departments anyway. Still a ways off before such a technology will be doing more complex tasks such as driving a car and the like. The day is coming though. Edit: I love the term impossible. Everything is possible. Anything one can every think of is possible, just to very degress of possibility. The very thought that one can think of it makes it possible in your mind. A lot of things have such a small chance of being possible with our limited view of the universe that we have to label it and thus consider it impossible, which in itself is impossible. Nothing is impossible that way. And that leads me to another nice one to wrap ones mind around, Nothing. Nothing doesn't exist in and of itself. Think of this one like this: can you have nothing / hold nothing in your hand? Even if you are holding "nothing" you are in fact holding on to air, or dust particles or "something". Nothing is just another term we had to create to describe a concieved state of being that doesn't actually exist. I love this kind of stuff! Last edited by Teklord; Sep 12, 2005 at 09:49 PM // 21:49.. Reason: Added other interesting stuff |
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